John: So this the first full tour you guys have done. I mean, you`ve done some weekend hits here and there, and up and down the West Coast...
Chris: I just consider these shows. To me, a tour is like a month. Or three weeks to a month, two months a year. But this is a good string of shows for us.
John: It started in DC, right?
Al: This leg? Yeah.
John: And you sold out all the vinyl the first night? So is that it?
Al: Oh, we`ll get re-upped, it`s just that on this tour we haven`t been able to get more boxes.
John: You`ve been playing with the same guys? Grails and Jack Rose?
Al: Jack Rose was on three of the six shows and Kirk Fisher of Buzzov*n and now Klloyd was supposed to play with us in New York, but we heard through the grapevine that he was in a car accident and his hand was injured. We were really looking forward to meeting up with Kirk, because of the old days. All of the Buzzov*n guys, they`re survivors. So yeah, it`s been Rose and Grails for the last four shows, five shows.
John: So what`s been the best show for you so far?
Al: I think Knitting Factory in Manhattan.
John: You played there last night?
Al: No, that was the night before last. Last night was Brattleboro, Vermont, which was cool in its own way, but I think over the five I would pick � if I was forced � it would be Knit.
Chris: Yeah.
Al: We`ve played Knit a couple of times and that was the one.
John: Now that`s the one with the different levels; it`s got like four stories or something like that.
Al: It`s got like three stages in there. We played the same one we`ve played the past couple of times. We played with the Hidden Hand a couple of years ago, and the last time it was with Growing.
John: You did some showcases down there?
Al: Not in New York. We haven`t done CMJ.
John: Ah. So let`s go back to Pilgrimage. What led you to Steve Albini?
Al: We wanted the best drum sound we could get.
Chris: End of story.
Al: We`re a two-piece band. If the drums aren`t recorded well... I cross referenced every fucking album he`s ever recorded. No matter what genre or style of the band he was working with, the drum sound stands out. So we went there, and instead of recording us on 24 tracks, he recorded us on 16. I wanted him to record us on eight.
John: How live was the album? Did you do a lot of overdubs?
Al: It was all live.
John: Was that the case with all of them?
Al: Yeah, we lay it down and after the foundation is there...
Chris: We lay the vocals over it.
John: Now what about the fade-outs on Pilgrimage? A couple of people on the site have been talking about them.
Al: Okay, here it is. Those songs have no end. They actually have no beginning. There`s no fade in either, but they don`t point that out. They don`t have a beginning or an end. I mean, really, what can you do? What are we supposed to do? Carbon date it and leave it in a place where you can look it up 45 years from now? It`s just the way it is. It`s a small window glimpse of something that goes on before and after. Shit, on vinyl you`ve got what - 42 minutes? So what are you gonna work with? You`ve got to work with the containment vessel, you know what I mean? Vinyl, CD � they`re containment vessels.
John: I get you. The big thing people are always pointing out is the spiritual nature of the lyrics. I know the last time we talked to you guys, you said it wasn`t from any specific source, but it was sort of filtered what you learned.
Al: Learned, experienced, pondered, contemplative. They all synthesize into one integration of the expression.
John: Would you say there`s a central theme to the album?
Al: There`s a central theme to all of life. There`s a central thread to the core of all of it. Central theme to songs? There`s a central theme to songs and riffs and albums and lifespans. And systems, world systems, galaxies...
John: You can keep going.
Al: There`s a central theme to lots of things. What else is new?
John: How about current events? How much does that factor in? I know you said that everything is going to be a reaction to outside influences, but how about the current political climate and all that?
Al: Not much at all. I mean, in the sense that we`re writing from an internal place. It`s not a reaction to the day or the moment.
John: Here`s another stock question. Where do you see yourself going forward in terms of how you`re writing? The first album seemed to me more like a Sleep album but without the guitar, and then with �At Giza� on the second album, you started expanding your sound.
Al: I think it`s an organic unfolding over time. When we were in Sleep, Chris and I as a rhythm section from eighth grade, we have all these songs that fall into place immediately, intuitively, spontaneously. There`s a connection we`ve always had. In Sleep, there was a certain way... We couldn`t do certain things.
John: How so?
Al: Well, creatively with three members, there were other considerations to appreciate as a unit then. Because we were a unit � we weren`t two people, we were three � and so that unit had different facets to it. He and I didn`t have the same amount of freedom. We were completely happy doing what we were doing, it`s just that we didn`t have the same amount of canvas space. Now we can completely do it free reign, and there`s great freedom there. And we really feel like we`re just getting started with it.
Going back to your question, �At Giza� was the gear shift for it. It was like we`ve been doing this shit for seven or eight years, so here we go.
John: You bring individual facets to the band?
Chris: Absolutely.
Al: We bring our own lens to the light spectrum.
John: What would your strengths and weaknesses be individually?
Al: Um.
John: See now it`s sounding like a job interview.
Chris: I`m not sure where to go with that one.
Al: That`s for us to answer through the next album.
John: Which I`m assuming will be through Southern Lord?
Al: We don`t know. We did a one album contract with Greg because we did a four album contract with Sleep, so we`re never doing more than one at a time with whoever. We`re really happy with Greg and we`re really happy with Southern Lord, so let`s play it by ear.
Chris: We`re also really happy with Holy Mountain. We`re just spreading the music out. There`s no leaving Holy Mountain for any wrong reason.
Al: There`s no exclusive.
Chris: We consider him a friend. He`s a great guy.
Al: Both of them. John Whitston and Greg Anderson.
John: Speaking of labels and all that, does it ever weird you out that Sleep has had such a deep and resonating impact?
Al: It is weird. Because we were just inspired by something that just overwhelmed our hearts and the pain we were feeling as kids. And that`s all we did. But what the fuck - it was mocked and ridiculed and had no place except for the place it had within our hearts. Which is why we did it. But it is quite weird.
John: Which brings up Asbestosdeath. How`d the reissue of that all come about?
Al: Greg. Two 7� - archive them on CD. That was the band that we formed in fucking eighth grade. So let`s preserve the demo. Cool. We`re still good friends with Tom Choi, and whoever reads this interview look up his work with It Is I and Operator Generator. Now he`s in Vegas. Capture by Robots I think is the name of the group he`s working with now. Tom`s a good guy. Chris and I have never played with anybody to this day that we`re not best brother with. It`s all the same. We`re all a family.
John: When I spoke to Matt Pike last month, he still spoke highly of you guys. Speaking of which, you`ve heard the new High on Fire album?
Chris: It`s very good. It`s my favorite, actually.
Al: It`s good, but when I hear it, it`s another answer to a question you asked prior. We`re both � he and us � free to do the thing that were in each other`s way. Don`t get me wrong � in Sleep, we weren`t opposing each other, but there were..
Chris: Compromises.
Al: There were crystals on the bud that we could not harvest. We still had raw bud and the yield overall was fine. But in our hearts, we had a certain kief that we had to refine in a private place on the hillside.
John: What did you do in the time between Sleep and Om?
Al: I went to school, worked, distanced myself as much as possible from people telling me what I needed to do and what they thought I needed to do.
John: Was there a push to keep doing something new?
Al: I had a serious physical injury right after Jerusalem. A serious debilitating physical injury, combined with what happened with our band, that led to a place where I needed to... I wanted to find out what my life was. Not the institution that I occupied as a 12 year old kid in a band. When you go out of that space and you see day to day life, normal reality around you, there`s a great learning that can begin and it did, and I felt overwhelmed by it. Life became really educational. There was a lot of healing. And there were a lot of things I had to confront, a lot of pain I had to wash. And I`m still doing it. I was in no position � the real answer � to continue acting like we ready to write songs and play on stage, dude. You have to be in that place or you`re just a politician.
John: And you?
Chris: I had to dive into work myself and separate myself from music. A lot like he was explaining, to find myself and grow as a person.
John: So basically you felt like you were defined by �the guys in Sleep� and not as yourselves?
Al: No, I wouldn`t say we were defined by that. We wanted to find what life was outside of all this shit. We just wanted to see. We didn`t even know if we would ever play music again. I didn`t know if I would write a song again. I mean, I heard them in my head. I had to sidestep them for years, but I was not going to accept their presence unless things were aligned internally, and it was linear. And it was from the foundation to the terminus, correctly, like an emotion that was not contradictory. It had to be real for myself and my own conviction and my root spirit from my mind, my body. It had to be in the seat of my stomach. And I can`t fucking do it if it`s not there. I can`t. And I won`t and I never will. I don`t care what`s offered. Fuck it all. I think the record stores are too big and there are five times too many music periodicals because we haven`t all honestly accepted that it has to be there. It is not a fucking commercial business.
John: Now who got in touch with whom? What led to the genesis of Om?
Al: Okay, here`s the deal. In my own ethics, what I have to follow in music in order to sleep at night, in order to live, I refuse to play unless it has to be done. Unless it has to be done. I`m very vigilant about that. I`ve always been. So after all the pain and trauma that Pike and Hakius and me went through as kids, friends, brothers, musicians, I had to stop. I had to disconnect, detach, reprogram, take the space and time to find out what I felt. Not what other people told me I was supposed to feel but how I actually did feel. And upon that, deal with it, find out the right way of coping with it. In that, I refused to play music until it had to happen. So obviously there`s been all these things that have been coming up year round throughout my entire life. What else is new? I heard that song before, I`ve heard that riff before, I know this feeling, I`ve heard this groove, but I`m not convinced. I`m gonna fucking wait. I`m gonna starve you out. I`m gonna see if you`re real. I`m gonna see how really deep you retaliate. If you make me pace, walk up and down, starve and not eat? Cool? We`ll turn you into a song.
So it started happening, and at the time it was happening, he and I still weren`t talking. I had my apartment set up with all these cardboard boxes and I was hitting down the beats, playing my bass over it, singing it on top of another tape and getting my ideas in one concise place. And I surrendered. I broke. The riffs came through outside. I fucking broke. It had to happen and it`s going to continue to happen.
I started to archive them. And even then I went to a second stage � how real is this? It was real. I had to call Chris. I called Chris. This is important. I had not dialed Chris` phone number for years.
Chris: He called me and in a couple of hours we were writing songs.
John: And this has to be a common question � why the name?
Al: We didn`t want a name. We actually saw no purpose for it. In terms of the premise of why we were doing this emotionally and spiritually, there`s actually no reason to call it anything. And that was the way we wanted to go with it. Distributors were the first people to complain about that. Record labels were the second. And I tried and I talked for about four months with people about it, and we had to come up with something. So we chose something that was the most open, the most universal. Literally, we wanted to band to be called [silence]. And you can`t do that.
John: I always thought it was synonymous with the sound. It was like a chant, like a mantra.
Al: That wasn`t something we thought of. We didn`t even have songs like �At Giza� when we chose the name. We just didn`t want a name.
John: Now what about the titles of the albums?
Al: We really did want to call Conference of the Birds �Variations on a Theme.� And again, the same answer - �No, that`s not cool. That`s not gonna work.� And even Variations on a Theme was a surrender. I mean, ultimately that`s the best... they`re all variations on the central atmosphere, feeling, core, and presence. We perceive reality the way it is in this embodiment. Okay, yeah. It`s a variation. Why is there all this need to declare? Isn`t life just there?
John: I suppose you gotta make order of things.
Al: But order is inherent within the intelligence of nature. It does its own thing.
John: And yet it`s easier to catalog things when you can list it and break it down.
Al: There you go. There`s your answer [laughs].
John: So it was a practical solution to a fight you ultimately couldn`t win.
Chris: That sounds about right.
John: Really? Now how long do you guys get to play each night? A forty five minute set? An hour?
Al: It varies. We played in San Francisco at this record store and we had to play a 45 minute set. We usually play an hour fifteen, an hour thirty. Even the sets follow the flow.
John: So it`s almost an impromptu decision?
Al: Literally. We have to wait for it to tell us what`s going on and then decide what to do about it.
[Editor`s note: That night, they seemed a bit off, almost as if they were unsure of themselves, during the first part of their set. Then around the point of �At Giza,� you could feel everything click and turn for the band. From that point, it was clear what Al was talking about with having an absolute emotional and spiritual connection with the music. They played until they were told they had to stop, and then they played some more. Their set didn`t end when the power was cut to Al`s amp, but after that, when the lights were turned on and the staff of the Middle East was forcibly pushing people out the door. And even then, Al refused to let go of the music.]
John: How much � for lack of a better word � variations between the songs live and the recorded versions?
Al: There`s subtle differences and nuances. Every night is different. Because that`s the way we are. We`re not Rush.
Chris: Emotions are different. Sounds on stage are different. We may start jamming.
John: Okay, the Chicago show. You played the Double Door?
Al: The Empty Bottle.
John: You played two shows. Apparently there were sound issues the first night. Some people on the board were saying they didn`t feel you didn`t come off as strong as they were hoping. They were expecting the loud, almost oppressive wall of sound, but they felt the whole thing was sort of diminished.
Chris: I don`t remember anything like that. I mean, we were on stage, so I don`t know what was going on out there on the floor.
Al: I know that bodies soak up sound waves. When we sound check, it`s about four times louder.
John: I just wanted to see if you felt if it was an off night.
Al: I thought it was a really good night. I thought there was a really off person who got thrown out.
Chris: That`s right. I forgot about that.
Al: He got thrown out and he almost got killed outside.
John: Drunken rowdiness?
Al: No, just an authority on his own cocaine habit.
John: Always good to hang out with people like that.
Al: Totally. Especially to have them post blogs on your website.
John: Now what about Israel? How`d you hook that up?
Al: There`s a promoter over there who`s been after us for about four years and he just broke down and just forced it to happen.
John: First time?
Al: We`ve never been to the old world.
John: Not even with Sleep?
Chris: No.
Al: We never played the old world with Sleep. We played all sorts of Europe but not the old world, not the ancient world.
John: What kind of shit do you have to go through to travel over there to perform?
Al: We`re in the process of finding out. It`s incredibly different than the EU. But the folks there are just so stoked, it`s been such good communication.
John: I don`t want to make any assumptions because I`ve never seen you play before, but based on what you`re saying about feeding off the energy of the audience, that`s gonna be something else.
[Editor`s note: Om played for close to five hours at Jerusalem and three hours at Tel Aviv. Again, a spiritual connection with the music.]
John: So what about this Shrine Builder project?
Al: It`s gonna be a full-length release. It`s gonna be Scott Kelly on guitar, Wino`s on vocals and guitar.
John: People were wondering who was going to do what.
Al: When [Wino] first called us, the very first conversation that we had, I was like, �If you`re in the band there`s only one microphone.�
John: Since the two of you are so obviously joined at the hip, rhythm-wise, how`s it going to translate with the new project with more bodies?
Chris: It seems pretty natural.
Al: There`s actually no difference. That`s why when he [Wino] called... That`s why Scott`s in the band. There`s no explanation that needs to ensue. It`s just there. All four of us are in a room, there`s so much you don`t have to fucking talk about or explain. That is important � emotionally, spiritually, psychically, intellectually.
Chris: Sonically.
Al: You don`t have to fucking say anything. It`s just there.
John: Any way you can describe what it`s going to sound like?
Chris: It`s gonna sound like all of us put together.
Al: It`s gonna sound like when you have to lean down into your knees, to the space between your knees with a matchbook and a chillum, in the front seat of your car. And after having done that, you get outside of your car, close and lock the door, and you`re walking across the parking lot and your throat is absolutely burned. And it`s still worth it. It`s gonna be straight matches and resin.
John: Alright, well I`m tapped out. Thank you guys. Anything you want to say to the good people at StonerRock.com?
Al: In Butler there`s a great refuge. In Ward we have safety. In Iommi we are provided solace. The clarity is provided in the first four releases.
