ez: How�s the tour so far? As far as I know, it�s the first time both bands are together for a full tour.
Stephen: The tour�s been going great so far. Yeah, [Sunn O)) and Earth] played some shows in the states together over the past few years but yeah, it�s the first tour. Everyone gets along really well so it�s been really fun, kinda like just hanging out. Musically both bands are really kicking ass I think, playing really well, moving into new territory. Both are progressive bands that complement each other in a way � at least on the tour, although our music is very different. But the links between the music are abstractions like time, speed, things like that.
ez: What instrument did you start out playing?
Stephen: Uh, when I was a kid I was in the school band, played the clarinet [laughs]. Then I played bass clarinet, I mean, when I was like ten years old. Then I played Scottish bagpipes, and then I played bass guitar, and then I started playing guitar. I didn�t start playing guitar until I was, like, eighteen, nineteen - kinda late I guess, most of the people I know started playing earlier, like when they were twelve years old or so.
ez: Do you perceive your different musical projects as being one universal entity?
Stephen: Sure, from my perspective they�re just different expressions but it�s all my� from my perspective it�s all me, although I think from my listener�s perspective they may seem pretty different at times, but you know there�s like common emotional states that I go for when I make music - trance, the trance element of the mind is one of the main themes, so the similarities� it�s like different personalities I guess.
ez: Besides your visual arts creations most of us are more or less familiar with, your �day-job� is doing graphic design in the advertisement business. Are this art and your music connected in a deep way, or are they somewhat independent from each other?
Stephen: Well, you know I do the design work for my own bands � almost everything, at least everything that�s coming from us directly, so in that respect, yes. There is a link, but it really depends on the project or the album, or whatever the piece is itself; like what is the direction, artistically, like with Black 1, we commissioned the art from an illustrator � I did design it and put everything together, but the aesthetic is very much based on other principles outside my own style.
ez: When you do artwork for other bands, do you combine it with their music, or is it more a part of you that comes into the art?
Stephen: It really depends on the band and how they approach me. Some bands come to me with specific ideas, some come to me with an open palate along the lines of �we want you to do whatever you want.� I try to make it accurate then, make a connection there � unless I don�t like the music, and that�s like, you know, being professionally obliged to take jobs sometimes. If that�s the case and I have free art direction, free range, then sometimes I get more experimental with things. But some projects allow the experimentation to happen anyways, even though some stuff doesn�t call for it. Some stuff is very straightforward assembly type work almost, focusing on details like font, you know just solidifying things. I always try and respect the band�s vision of course. Even if I don�t like the music, I try and get in there. I don�t always feel like, �Oh my god, I�m a big fan of the band I�m working for,� some of the Southern Lord bands � well you know, Greg [Anderson] likes em. What I�m a fan of in that instance is the fact that it might have the ability to go further, or I might try to get some insight into the visual aesthetic, which I think is absent quit often from a lot of music-related design, or it�s very sort of superficial, uh, effects oriented. Depending on the style of music you can get really clich�d, like metal music for example: a lot of stuff looks like video games, role playing games, or these different kind of fantasy elements, you know. The fans like that stuff, but there�s a whole other level to a lot of metal music that allows for more mature type of artwork I think, or approach to the artwork, even if the artwork itself is silly or goofy.
ez: Do you cater to the fan? Do you take the fan into consideration when composing your music?
Stephen: I�m not an entertainer. I think that�s a good question. I mean, music is an entertainment form of expression most of the time, like people performing for entertainment. I don�t think our music is for that, although it is entertaining to people, I think it�s more of a� uh, the purpose is not to entertain people, the purpose is something else, and I think we are catering to the fans in that way � if they are searching for these kind of elements in what they�re listening to. But no, we�re not directly influenced by what we think the fan wants to hear.
ez: Black 1 - are you happy with it?
Stephen: Yeah, I really like it � the whole process was super stimulating, it was really an awesome project to work on, all the aspects of it. We were trying to do new things with our recording � stuff that we hadn�t done before. It might not have been totally original techniques or anything, but for us it was new territory.
ez: Is there going to be a Black 2?
Stephen: I don�t know, there�s no plan for one right now. We�re working on a different album right now, it�s called Alter, it�s actually a collaboration with Boris and a lot of other people too, like Dylan [Carson] plays on it, Joe Preston, Kim Thayil from Soundgarden, Jesse Sykes, Bubba Dupree from Void � like there�s a lot of people involved with it, it�s a fucking awesome record man. It�s like, the songs on it are very different for both bands, but still, you know who�s playing. We�re shooting for a September release on Southern Lord, as well as a Japanese version on Inoxia, Boris�s label.
ez: Speaking of Boris, I�m sure you�ve noticed the recent craze for Sunn O)) and Boris merchandise on Ebay�
Stephen: Yeah. It�s funny, last night we were in Geneva, and we had the night off; people were kinda looking at Ebay and were like, �Fuck! The tour 12 inch [Sunn O))/Earth split] is already going on Ebay! Some guy�s selling it for $75!� It�s ridiculous, but it�s a collector�s market, you know � these are objects that people want, and hey, you know, it�s a compliment really! We�re pretty fortunate people are willing to go for it. I mean, I can�t afford to do that myself, but some people can and they get what they want. It�s a lot better than being like, �Whatever, we have a surplus of records no one wants��
ez: Speaking of surplus, is the market the reason you pressed 5,000 vinyl copies of Black 1?
Stephen: Yeah. It�s kinda like uh� although we still did different colors we did this thing, with the color where it�s like there are five different colors, all of �em are variations of grey [laughs]. So it�s like, one�s transparent, one�s marbled, one�s solid, and someone asks, �What are the colors?� Well there�s grey and there�s grey and grey and grey and grey, and there�s black. Black is actually the least produced amount� it�s kinda to fuck with these collector guys. We did press a lot because, I dunno, it�s not like we�re� we�ve done small pressing in the past because we want to keep it exclusive. I mean when we did White 1 on vinyl it was like, does anyone want to buy this?, it�s a risk, it�s really expensive to do, Southern Lord presses it all, it�s Greg, it�s his money and stuff so it�s kind of a risk, you know. But with Black 1, there�s a lot more interest now, which allows us to do that. I mean five thousand copies is a lot, of any record, especially on vinyl. It�s doing really well too, a lot better than any of our other albums. Southern Lord shipped all of the vinyl to shops and distributors already. It�s our biggest selling album so far. And I think it�s like fucking extreme too, the album is raw, it�s heavy, it�s dark, I think it�s the least accessible of� maybe some of Flight of the Behemoth is probably more, um, challenging. Black 1, I mean it�s pretty demanding to listen to. Although on the other hand, I think we hit on something by having shorter songs, more variety, more like scenes in a movie if you will.
ez: Did you think that you were maybe taking a risk doing these shorter songs?
Stephen: Well, they�re shorter, but they�re still ten minutes long, they�re still pretty long for songs. Greg really wanted to try some shorter pieces and I�m glad we did it. I�m all for fucking long twenty minute songs and stuff, but you know, we�ve done a lot of those, and I think Black 1 is closer to what Sunn O)) is as a live experience. And the fact that we have several pieces that are coming in and out in our live performance, so� It�s cool, I mean it�s very honest, it�s not like premeditated, or pretentious to do that.
ez: It seems that in the last years, Sunn O)) has been drawing a very diverse crowd to their shows.
Stephen: Yes. I mean looking at the crowd at our shows back home, it shows that the relation to the listener is pretty broad, I mean we�re not just a� we�re not a metal band, but we�re also not a doom band, we�re not a experimental band, we�re not a electronic band, but all these things exist in our music. It�s more about the roots of the people involved than the music we�re playing, our sound, sort of like pushing towards the foundational aspect of what Sunn O)) is, like transcending, super-archaic amplifier music.
ez: Speaking of amplifiers, I noticed you don�t have a complete Sunn backline.
Stephen: Well, all the guitars use Model Ts, and all the bass elements use Ampeg. It�s not like a branding thing, the Model Ts are just the amps we like for our guitar sound. The reason why we took the name Sunn O)) was partially a nod to Earth really; it was like ok, here�s Sunn, or here�s Earth, ala Earth 2 [shapes large sphere with hands] and here�s Sunn O)) [shapes smaller sphere adjacent], me and Greg at the beginning, just doing real slow stuff like Melvins, Earthy kinda stuff, and the amps had that cool logo, so we said let�s just do this, let�s just call it Sunn O)). You know, earth and sun, kinda like a stoned band idea, and it works real well at the same time, it�s sort of like this alien word in a way and I think our music is pretty alien, or celestial.
ez: Now that you�ve forged your own identity, your own sound, have you ever thought of distancing yourselves from the amp logo, the connotations of being a Earth tribute band?
Stephen: We can�t, I mean why? If we do have our identity it�s not important to me how it�s perceived at all, it�s what we are doing, you know, it�s not a� we�re always going to have a relationship with Earth. They totally influenced our� my own style of playing guitar from way before Sunn O)). But I don�t think it�s a negative thing, it�s not like we�re a rip-off band, we�re influenced is all and you know, a lot of the stuff we did we were trying to reach similar headspace with our music to what we appreciate about the albums like the early Earth albums. But also, we�re trying to do that with Black 1 with some black metal records that also have this sort of transcending quality to them when you listen to them; it�s emotional like, super charged music.
ez: These influences are from the original Norwegian scene?
Stephen: Yeah, I got a lot of history with that personally, and Greg does as well, I mean I dunno from the early nineties I was really into it. I used to do a fanzine, black metal fanzine called Dissent back in Seattle; I worked for a label in the mid-nineties called Misanthropy Records, put out Burzum records, I designed records for some of those bands too, like Emperor and stuff, you know. I�m a huge fan of stuff that was happening at that time, still am. I mean it�s like, I dunno if it was my age or� I think some of that music is really like, fucking classic music to this day, like Mayhem�s second album, or De Mysteris Dom Satanis, I guess it�s their third album; it�s like, that�s a milestone of metal music. That�s like better than� more important to me than anything Slayer�s ever done or anything like that. It�s true, it�s fucking� it�s the real deal you know. Not that Slayer�s disgenuine or anything, or not important� just to me it�s like, probably because to me I�ve had this experience of [black metal] being more than music in a lot of ways, inspiring.
ez: I guess you also take something from the more recent American black metal scene, what with Malefic doing vocals for you on this tour and on Black 1�
Stephen: The connection is personality-based, and as fans. Greg really got into that band Leviathan, I had heard it and wasn�t into it until� I dunno, there was one album that came out, Greg�s like, �You really should check this band out again, it�s really outstanding stuff� so I was, �Ok, I�ll check this out again� wow, this is fucking cool man, it�s progressive,� you know. And I, um, just met him, got tattooed by that guy, he�s a tattoo artist, um, asked him to be on the album. When we do Sunn O)) albums, it�s like the concept doesn�t start and end when we go into the studio; it�s kind of like the result of everything that�s been happening since the last record, people that we�ve met and been involved with, you know, they�re in the orbit of Sunn O)) or whatever and the concept of what happens in the album has a lot to do with who those people are sometimes. Cuz Sunn O))� I mean Greg and I direct the whole thing of course, but it�s not us, it�s this other thing that is the culmination of all the charisma of the people involved. So, Malefic as well, we met him, got in contact with him. You know that guy�s guitar playing is really weird, it�s unique, it�s got something that�s different and special. He�s a one-man band, like a lot of the American bands; I mean, it�s isolationist music really, these things only exist in their minds and on albums. It�s really like this evocation of idea that doesn�t exist as a band or as a social unit at all, it�s really kinda interesting in that way too I think� the sociopathic quality of that style of music.
ez: How much of an influence is industrial music to Sunn O))?
Stephen: Oh yeah, the early stuff like Throbbing Gristle� I mean industrial music is kind of a strange term, cuz it�s one of those things, it�s not as broad as metal, or jazz or experimental, like those kind of blanket terms, but industrial music to me encompasses a lot of, sort of na�ve� well not na�ve, electronic music that�s not considered academic as well, or experimental� stuff like Coil is considered industrial, or they�re put in the industrial section in record stores. I love a lot of different kinds of music, Godflesh is to me a fucking classic band you know, I dunno, they�re kind of a metal band [laughs], I think. If I take anything from this music, it�s feeling, probably, you know, purging. As if, you know, when I was listening to this stuff back then, like Justin Broadrick was trying to, you know, get rats out of his veins or something like that, you know, cleaning himself out in a way; it�s a really powerful thing that music does, sort of a filter.
ez: Care to comment on the Burning Witch album re-issues?
Stephen: I�d like to do the re-issues, but nothing�s been planned really. If it happens, Southern Lord will most likely put those out. All this talk comes from us getting in touch again, an edgy coming-out-of-the-woodwork kind of thing. Also, talking about the re-issues, Stuart [Dahlquist] wants to play some shows, do a tour, do a new record, and all these kind of things, and I�m like, I dunno I�m on the fence. Like, I don�t wanna do covers essentially, that�s not where my head is anymore. I mean I love those records that we did, I think they�re fucking awesome, but it�s different, different time, that was ten years ago. I got so many exciting things that are happening right now that are my reality, like pulling this thing out. I would rather do a new Khanate record or try out some other� I�d like to play music with those guys again though, but I�d rather like to get together with Jamie [Sykes] and do like a fucking mono black metal band or something.
ez: So no chance of a Burning Witch reunion�
Stephen: That�s another thing, that word is not something I want, I don�t need. I feel like a reunion is� it means that you�re coming back to something and I don�t think I�ve� I think I�ve progressed way beyond that state and I don�t think I�ve left anything; I�ve been involved in creating some brand new sounds since then. I mean it�s kind of regressive in a way.
I know people love Burning Witch though, and it would be you know, we�d probably have a really great tour and stuff, but�
Basic stuff like amplifiers, you know that stuff I was playing at that time, I couldn�t play that stuff now. That�s a problem on the basic level. Not to say you�d have to play the same exact equipment, but that�s kind of what that band was. I mean, just like any band, the sum of the equipment is a big part of the sound. If I brought my fucking Sunn stacks to Burning Witch it�d be pretty different�And if I write new guitar music I can�t be like, �Ok, what state of mind was I in then? Oh, I was really into Celtic Frost, Black Sabbath and Burzum.� Ok so, what, do I study these records? I�d like to play more metal though, actually.
ez: Are you going to go see Celtic Frost when they play the States?
Stephen: Yeah, I already got tickets for them in New York. It�s gonna be stupid, but gimme a break, it�s Celtic Frost. I�ve never seen them before. They�re playing this club in NYC called B.B. King�s� it�s stupid, a lot of metal shows happen there � it�s just a stupid club in Times Square and stuff� They could be playing a much cooler� it�s a testament to the creativity of whoever booked them, I mean they could be playing in a monastery or church or something rad and have like a thing going on, you know, headbanging, get drunk [laughs].
ez: How about new stuff from Teeth of Lions Rule the Divine?
Stephen: There is, I�m not involved with it myself though. At least I think there is; Justin Greaves was trying to get everyone, the same people that were on the Rampton album together to do a new record; we�re all friends and stuff but it�s very difficult. That [Rampton] kinda happened because we were all in the same place, it wasn�t like planned too much. Justin and I, we had played together before, but then suddenly everyone was kinda over there at the same time and like, �Ok, let�s do those songs, let�s record �em�� Anyway, he tried to get everyone interested in doing another thing, and I think Lee [Dorian] might be involved, I don�t think Greg�s into it. Justin sent me a demo of stuff he had written with some people and it�s pretty different from Rampton for sure; I think someone from Mogwai is playing on it as well. I wasn�t that into the demo, I think it�s cool that he�s writing stuff but it just wasn�t to my taste. What I liked about TOLRTD was playing with Justin, playing heavy Melvins-style drones.
ez: Khanate?
Stephen: Yeah, there�s actually something recorded already. It�s all improvisation this new one; all of the rest of the records have improve in �em but this one�s full of improvisation. I think it�s more like a Fushitsusha worship, the Japanese band, Keiji Haino, like free-noise rock kind of� but it�s heavy. It�s not structural, it�s more open. I consider the record to be more rock than the rest of them, more the spirit of rock. The only thing that isn�t improve is Alan�s [Dubin] vocals and as far as I know they�re working on that while I�m on tour. James [Plotkin] and Tim [Wyskida] in the meantime have recorded an all improve record of just the two of them, which is coming out on Archive.
ez: That�s a great label, isn�t it�
Stephen: Yeah, he�s [Scott Slimm] doing great stuff and I�m glad to be involved with it a little bit; it�s a cool label for sure. He�s got really good ideas, where he�s coming from is really cool I think. The guy tapes every fucking show I go to, he�s always there with his DAT, this converter thing and his backpack, mic clipped to his hat � he�s a cool guy.
ez: Yeah, so I guess we�ve covered just about everything. Thanks a lot for the interview.
Stephen: Cool thanks. Right on, nice talking to you, man. |
